An
interview with Grant Schnarr about his new book The
Art of Spiritual Warfare: A Guide to Lasting Inner Peace
What is spiritual warfare?
Grant:
Spiritual warfare is about conquering your own demons, gaining control over your
destructive tendencies, like fear, anger, impulsive behavior, addiction. It's
the old fashion war against human evil, fought by individuals for centuries.
And
so this new book, The Art of Spiritual Warfare,
helps people fight their battles?
Grant:
Yes, it's a guidebook, a book of warrior strategy to defeat your spiritual enemy,
your own negative self.
Is this book particularly for
one religion, say Christianity, or is it for others as well?
Grant:
Actually, the book is drawn from a broad variety of religious and spiritual sources.
It draws from the Tao, Buddha's teachings, the Bible, Swedenborg, Islam, and even
from some modern writers like Dan Millman, Carlos Castaneda, Robert Moore. It's
for anyone of any religious background.
What does this
book do for people? How can it help?
Grant:
The book contains strategies to overcome dysfunctional tendencies and behaviors.
You learn how to defeat these defects, how to avoid the ones that seem too powerful
to overcome, how to hold on in times of hardship, how to connect with people,
nature, God, in order to find allies in your struggle. What I tell people is that
this spiritual warrior philosophy can set people free from the struggle and find
real wholeness and peace.
The book is based on Sun Tzu's,
Art of War. Can you tell us about him?
Grant:
Sun Tzu was a Chinese military strategist who lived about 2500 years ago. The
Art of War has long been recognized as one of the most important treatise ever
written on the strategy of warfare. It's principles have been studied and adopted
by military generals throughout history, from ancient battles in China, to the
wars of Napoleon, to modern world wars. Now it has been popularized for business
strategy and gaining the upper hand in any sort of competitive field.
How
did you come to write a self help book based on a battle strategy?
Grant:
I came across Sun Tzu's work by accident. I first laid eyes on this book as it
sat on a friend's book shelf in Colorado. The title jumped out at me. I remember
leafing through it, eagerly glancing at the index, studying the chapter headings.
There was something about it that drew me to want to explore it. I borrowed the
book, and as I was reading it I realized that what I held in my hand was not just
a book about military strategy, but a parable dealing with my own struggles. I
had long battled my own destructive tendencies through twelve-step programs and
other support networks. I was familiar with my own personal demons, and the real
struggles against them. Here was a book which, on the surface, spoke of what you
might call "earthly war" but it also reflected the deeper "spiritual war" within.
I immediately recognized that these strategies could help on a spiritual plane.
These battle strategies also worked to help me defeat my fears, my mistaken wants,
and addictive tendencies, my own demons within.
Can
you give us some examples of a battle strategy for spiritual growth?
Grant:
One lesson of Sun Tzu is to stay on ground which is unassailable to the enemy.
In war, don't camp in a vulnerable spot. Don't journey into areas where you are
open for attack. Spiritually it's the same. Someone who suffers from addiction,
for instance, may find he or she keeps falling off the wagon because they try
to get off the alcohol or drug but hang out with the same people in the same places.
They leave themselves vulnerable to the temptation to pick up a drink or to use.
They have to get out of the bars and change their friends. I remember someone
at work used to push my buttons every day when I walked in the front door. Instead
of making some big deal out of it, I just started coming in another way. Problem
solved.
Sun Tzu says, "Change your routine. Throw the enemy off." It's called the unorthodox method of fighting your enemy. If idleness is the devil's pillow, continual routine is the devil's playground. Want a cure for gloom and self-pity? Do something crazy. Run around the house naked. Shower with your clothes on. Serve dinner in a tutu. Am I joking? To a degree. But it's amazing what unorthodox behavior can do to your mood. The spiritual enemies of depression and self-pity, worry, anxiety, fear--they hate unorthodox behavior. It scares them away. Try it.
Sun Tzu says if you know the enemy and yourself you will never be at risk in a hundred battles. You need to be aware of your own propensity toward dysfunctional behavior. You need to know where the spiritual enemy is going to show up in your life. What brings on the fear? What causes the want or lust? What's that anger about anyway? Studying the enemy, yourself, the terrain, helps you to effectively deal with these issues.
Do
you teach certain techniques to deal with personal demons or shortcomings?
Grant: Well, in our training, we teach a variety
of techniques, like how to move into a safe emotional place or state of mind when
you are feeling threatened, and learning how to use that aggressive energy of
the warrior when you need to. With those type A personalities we concentrate on
helping them learn how to stay peaceful and yield. With those who just can't seem
to stand up for themselves, we steer them toward the more aggressive approach.
What's interesting is that you're always calming the one group down while trying
to stir the other group to action.
What might you teach
someone who tends to react like a type A personality, maybe with anger or some
negative action?
Grant: I'd get them
to create a safe place in their mind that they can go before immediately reacting.
In fact, we have a technique called "Step in; step up; step out." Stepping in
is where you learn to get in someone's face or protect your own personal boundaries.
Stepping up is simply becoming aware of what is going on in a particular situation
before you take action. Stepping out is finding that safe place and taking a moment
to get peaceful and centered before taking appropriate action to the particular
circumstance you may be facing. For instance, to help you create that safe place,
imagine a safe place you used to go to as a child. If you don't have one, make
one up. Bring the people you trust into this space, bring in your favorite pets,
possessions that mean something to you, bring God into that place. Make that place
as real as possible in your mind. In our workshops and weekends we help by actually
having people undergo sensory experience of being supported to help them build
this emotional place of safety. Then, when that person is attacked by fear, or
anger, or someone throws something up into their face, the person doesn't just
react negatively, but can go to that place first. Then the person can decide with
freedom and from a place of centeredness, how to respond.
What
do you mean by a spiritual warrior? What's your definition?
Grant:
Strictly speaking, a true warrior is someone who is willing to sacrifice the self
in order to achieve a higher principle or goal. A spiritual warrior is someone
who is willing to sacrifice the lower or more animal self for a higher principle
of love, integrity, and service. The spiritual warrior is a master over one's
self.
What's the goal? Inner peace? And is it really
possible?
Grant: Well, the outcome
for the individual is inner peace, but this is a product of the deeper goal, which
is achieving a state of love and wisdom. Free from selfishness, human, all the
baggage of fear and wants, addictions and other negative tendencies, the true
spiritual warrior finds happiness. Is it possible? Certainly. I don't think you
ever get to a point where you stop growing and rest on your laurels. Spiritual
growth is a process, but you definitely come into more and more states of love
and happiness. No question about it.
How did you get
involved in this work?
Grant: Spiritually,
I've always loved the smell of napalm in the morning. I mean, the war between
good and evil has always been of great interest to me. I've pretty well dedicated
my life to the struggle to bring more light and love into the world. What better
or more rewarding job could one have than to help people wake up and learn to
overcome their demons and find their Creator in this process, not to mention a
life of love and peace?
You've written about recovery
in two of your books, Spiritual Recovery,
and Return to the Promised Land. What's
the recovery connection?
Grant: Well,
I've had my share of battles for recovery. I'm not going to get into when and
what and tell my awful story. You can read some of that in Return to the Promised
Land. I didn't always, but now I take the twelve step traditions seriously and
uphold anonymity. All I can say is that I'm peeling the onion. I take on one compulsion
at a time, and with the grace of God defeat it, only to discover another one right
underneath. I deal with that one and find another. Let's just say that when I'm
at a meeting I can pretty well start by saying, "Hi. I'm Grant. And I'm powerless
over everything." That's what I like about the spiritual warfare model--it deals
with all of the compulsions, addictions, obsessions, childhood wounds. Whether
it's alcohol or drugs, food, sex and relationship addiction, abuse issues, whatever,
with the grace of God and some action on my own and support of others, I can overcome
any of these and the obstacles they bring. Yes. I'm an addict of human frailty,
selfishness, and evil, but I'm thankfully recovering from all of these.
Will
this book, The Art of Spiritual Warfare,
help those struggling with addiction?
Grant:
Absolutely. In fact, we've opened our spiritual warfare weekend trainings up to
recovery houses and, wow, those who have hit bottom certainly pick this stuff
up quickly. I think that's because they have no illusions about themselves. They
know there is an enemy. They know they need help. They are willing to trust in
a higher power and get to work. After all, it's not just another self help technique.
To them, it's life and death.
So, you have workshops
and also a weekend adventure called SWET, Spiritual Warfare
Effectiveness Training, what's that about?
Grant:
It's a weekend of adventure, spiritual growth, fellowship, and learning how to
be a spiritual warrior. It started out as a weekend for men and boys, initiating
them into mature adulthood, and helping them face some issues in their lives and
bond together. Maybe because I have four teenage boys this is where it started.
But I've also done a lot of work with women and men, and we now have a weekend
for both men and women. My wife, Cathy, and I run the program with some other
partners. It's a team approach. The average weekend has about 30 participants
and 30 staff. We also do some day workshops as well.
What
kinds of things do you do on a weekend like this? What's the venue?
Grant:
Our weekends have been at a 960 acre summer home of one of our founders. It's
in the Moosic mountains of Pennsylvania. This particular weekend gets you back
in touch with nature as well as with what's going on inside yourself. We are developing
a weekend to take on the road, and are mainly seeing where interest arises before
launching into this. People do travel from across the country to join us in Pennsylvania.
The surroundings themselves are worth the trip.
We've
seen what terrible things our young men can do in places like Columbine High School
and elsewhere. You think this spiritual warfare training can help in this situation.
Explain.
Grant: We can't eliminate
entirely the callous behavior of people, but we can make a difference in the lives
that we touch. Bringing teens to these SWET weekends we honor them, connect them
to adults who will truly look after their spiritual welfare, and we give them
tools to fight the real battle, the one inside. They love! And why wouldn't they?
It's not only the connection they've been looking for, but the sense of purpose
and mission. Some of our young SWET graduates are our best advocates. A young
man, who had been struggling with drug addiction and hanging out with the wrong
crowd and getting into real trouble with the law, came up to me half way through
one of these weekends and said, "You know. When I came here I had just about given
up. I didn't even know if I believed in God. But now I do." Seeing the hope in
his eyes caused me to break down and cry. Later I witnessed several men bending
over him by a fire blessing him and honor him as an individual. I realized then
just how powerful this stuff is for good. It can make a difference, a real difference.
Is
there an age limit for SWET?
Grant:
Those thirteen and older are welcome to attend, though teens need to be accompanied
by an adult, preferrably by a parent. What this program does to bond parent and
child together is astounding!
Do you get grief about
the whole notion of war? Robert Moore calls you a brave soul for even bringing
up the subject in his foreword to your book. Do people question your approach?
Grant: People ignorant of what we are doing
may misunderstand the whole warrior concept. I've found that my pacifist friends
who question this are some of the greatest spiritual warriors I know. When they
give me grief I respond, "You warrior, you." They are not afraid to stand up for
something. They have a mission. They follow it with zeal. They sacrifice themselves
to acheive it. They're warriors. I've been around long enough to know that no
matter what you do there will be someone who doesn't like it. I suppose coping
with that is part of learning how to be a spiritual warrior.
What
is your goal? Is there a bigger picture here for you?
Grant:
Yes. The battle begins in the human heart, but I believe in the forces of good
and evil, in the light and darkness. If I can help people conquer their own human
evil and darkness, they are going to leave this world in a better place. If we
work together to promote love and give people the tools to walk with integrity,
the entire human race will benefit. It's that important. And all of these movements
that are springing up throughout the world, they're all part of this awakening
and potential rebirth of humanity. The warfare part is sort of on the clean up
end. But we're all working for the same thing. It's exciting. And it's dangerous.
What's
so dangerous about it?
Grant: There
are those, whether spiritual beings on some other plane, or people right here
on earth, that don't want this rebirth to happen. Look at history. All the great
ones who stood up to make a difference for good. Most were persecuted. Many were
killed. So, what's so different about now? Hey, we don't call it a war for nothing.
How
can people reach you if they are interested in one of your weekends?
Grant:
You can call me for information at 215-947-8098, or email me at swetinfo@aol.com.
I'll send you a brochure. But the information is also in the book, The
Art of Spiritual Warfare.
Where can people get the
book?
Grant: You can get it at any
book store, and if they don't have it they can order it. Or if you shop online,
it's availiable at Amazon
and other online book stores. They have a great display and write up on it.